Breakup Advice

Today we respond to another reader with questions about the breakup of a relationship with a partner with Borderline Personality Disorder. The questions come from Justin.

Justin writes:

To whom it may concern,

I have been left by my BPD ex, she cheated on me and is already seeing someone else. Her spot in our bed isn’t even cold and she’s already with someone else. As many people have said our relationship had ups and downs. At times she would rip me a new one with her words and I would just take it cause I was raised not to yell at a woman.

My questions I would like answered:

1. If I want her back, is my best bet to act like I don’t?
2. Are all BPD’s the same? She left her ex for me……Am I just next in line?
3. Can you ever talk them back or is that it?

And our response:

Justin,

First of all, it is classic Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) for her to already be seeing someone else. People with BPD have not yet developed a solid core identity. So they rely on others to provide that. Therefore, being alone is terrifying for them. So people with BPD will commonly line up their next attachment before leaving a previous one. And they will move on to the next person very quickly. So quickly that it is shocking to the Non – the partner in the relationship who does not have BPD.

It sounds like there are elements of your upbringing that led you to be vulnerable to tolerating the type of unacceptable behavior that a BPD partner will sometimes level at you. So it may be worth it for you to investigate those past experiences and work on them in your own healing process.

To answer your questions.

1. In terms of getting her back, there are no guarantees. People with BPD are quite unpredictable and chaotic. So it may be that nothing you do will get her back. And it may be that she will come back again almost regardless of what you do.

   Usually, though, when someone with BPD leaves a relationship it is because they are in the stage where they are feeling “engulfed.” In other words, they are feeling too enmeshed and close and wanting space. They run to another relationship that is in a different exciting stage. Often, once that relationship becomes enmeshing, they may run from that one in the same way. So, given that she most likely left due to feeling engulfed, if you want her to come back I think your best bet is to let her know you’re available if she wants to talk and then give her her space. Anything more will most likely just raise the feeling of engulfment and close her off further.

   Of course, I must add what you probably already know. Even if you do get her back, if she isn’t in serious committed treatment for her disorder, the pattern is likely to just play out again. This is known as “recycling.” So you might want to think long and hard about what you would require of her to consider having a relationship with her again because without her taking certain committed steps, it may just turn out even more painful later.

2. All people with Borderline Personality Disorder are the same in certain core elements. For example, I believe they all (or, if not, then almost all) have some underlying trauma that generated the defense mechanisms we see in BPD. Obviously, in order to all fall under the same label as having the same disorder, they must all have some things in common. However, there are 9 symptoms of BPD listed in the DSM-IV and a person only needs to have 5 of those to qualify for diagnosis. That means that people with BPD can have quite a lot of different combinations of symptoms in comparison with each other. So the answer is yes and no. They are all the same in some ways and quite different from each other in others. (You can read about the different styles of BPD, for example, in this book.)

   However, the push/pull dynamic in relationships is one of those elements that I think is almost universal with people with BPD. So yes I do think it’s likely that what she did with her ex is what she has done with you and what she may do with the person after. That’s not a guarantee. But it is likely. And even if she does break the pattern and actually stay with someone, there is likely push/pull within the interaction in some way and you can bet that, if she is untreated, the relationship will be highly intense and dramatic.

3. People with BPD have a very unstable sense of self. Their very identity can seem to shift from one time to another. So when you ask whether you can talk them back, the answer is that you never know for sure. It depends on what part of their identity they are connected with at any given moment, what other attachments they have going on at the time you communicate, and what exactly you say. It requires a perfect storm to come together to get the outcome you want. But then, even if you do, soon the sands can simply shift beneath your feet. One of the few consistent things with someone with BPD, until they get treatment, is inconsistency itself.

   Your best bet for talking her back will be when she is alone again or is feeling trapped in her next relationship and looking for exits. But you have to ask yourself, if someone is coming back to you just because their latest relationship is feeling stifling, just as yours once did, do you really want them back under those conditions?

As always, I hope this helps. And if you’d like more direct and personal attention, just contact us and we can discuss whether you’d benefit from some coaching sessions.

Today we have a reader question that touches on the issue of enmeshed relationships.

If you have a question too, feel free to contact us and, when you do, please let us know if we have permission to post your question – with any changes necessary if you wish to protect your anonymity – along with our response.

Today’s question, posted with the reader’s permission, arrived in an email entitled “Cheering each other up” and reads as follows:

I’ve recently just had a break up, it wasn’t too long a relationship, 11 months, but very intense, especially the beginning. Your page has some really useful information. The question/dilemma I have, that perhaps other people often come across is that, I love my girlfriend very much, and when she gets down I want to make her happy, but sometimes life might hit her hard and she will be down for some time, I will try to cheer her up but sometimes feels like a real struggle and this will make me sad that she is sad then we are both stuck in a rut. Have you got any advice to prevent this situation in the future?

And our response:

Well the first things that cross my mind when I consider enmeshed relationships, of which this may be an example, are identity and boundary issues. If her mood is affecting you too much and you are unable to separate your feelings from hers, you may be identifying too much with her and having unhealthy boundaries. Obviously it is perfectly reasonable and healthy to identify with and open your boundaries to someone you are in a relationship with to some extent. If they are down for an extended period, it’s certainly reasonable and even expected that you will feel somewhat down about this too at times. But ultimately it isn’t helpful to either person for you to identify or become enmeshed to the extent that your feelings blend with theirs. The fact that you say it is so intense from the very start is also a sign that identity and boundary issues may be involved.

The next thing to consider is who you are attracting. Are you attracting women repeatedly that have a pattern of being depressed for long periods? If so, you may want to think about why this pattern exists. Do you have a rescuer complex where you, consciously or unconsciously, hope to be a woman’s savior and have her eventually come to look up to you as the person who fixed her? If so, you may want to rethink this strategy. For one thing, many people who are constantly depressed have deeper issues than a relationship alone, especially without the help of therapy, can fix. In addition, this is really not fair to you since you also deserve someone to be there for you and pick you up at times and, if they are constantly in the dumps, you will always be giving more than you receive, which, over time, chips away at your own energy and self-esteem. Your email was titled “Cheering each other up” but the email itself only talks about you cheering her up.

Depending on what you discover when you think about these topics, you may want to look into the theme of codependence, which plays out in many enmeshed relationships. Or you may ask yourself sincerely if these issues apply and find that they don’t. Only you can answer that. If they do not, then there are some other things that could be considered. But this is a good starting point.

Today we have a question from a reader about what to do when controlling mothers are involved in the breakup of otherwise seemingly promising relationships.

As always we thank the reader for permission to publish the question and our response and welcome your questions. Contact us and please let us know if we have permission to post your question – with any changes necessary if you wish to protect your anonymity – along with our response.

The reader writes:

I met my now-ex back in January in a college class we were both taking. I’m a second-degree student at the age of 32; she is a first-degree student at the age of 21. We became good friends and eventually developed feelings for each other. The relationship moved slowly, but very naturally, in my opinion. We fell in love during the summer, but the problem is that she lives with her mother who immediately had a problem with the age difference.

At first, the mother said she wanted to meet me first before we went on official dates (we’d had lunch dates and practically talked every day). I had no problem with this, but she dragged her feet with meeting me. I even wrote a letter to her, introducing myself and that I cared about her daughter and only had the best intentions for her and her future. Long story short, it took nearly two months for her mother to meet or talk to me, and this was finally just last week. However, it was in a less than ideal setting (a police department – I was there to help my girlfriend and be supportive because she was having some issues that required a police report). I briefly met the mother then. We also had a date planned a few days later, so I still needed to get her mother’s full approval. Anyway, my girlfriend told me later that her mother was impressed with me and thought I was well-mannered, but she still wanted to talk to me about this date. I had lunch with my girlfriend the next day, so we called her on the phone during lunch, and I explained what the date was, where we were going, what time she should be home, etc. (it was going to an observatory about an hour away, something my girlfriend really wanted to do). Her mother made a comment about her daughter and me remaining only friends (the age gap was too large, she said) and then said she’d talk about it later that night with her daughter (she said it was okay, though). Anyway, the next day, her mother changed her mind last minute and ended up not letting her go, and both my girlfriend and I were upset. I overreacted and said that I didn’t know if her mother would ever approve of us, quickly regretted the comment, and said that I didn’t want to end the relationship. My girlfriend was still upset, though, but we talked the next day, and she said we were okay.

All this past week, contact was limited, but I figured she was busy because of school and work. However, the other night, she broke up with me on Facebook, saying that her mother would never approve of us, that it was unfair to me, and that I deserved better. She said she couldn’t see me in person, that it was too hard, but that she “had to do this.” Her mother and her were constantly fighting about us, and it was stressing her out (in addition to other non-relationship things).

Needless to say, I’m devastated. The relationship itself was fine, but her mother didn’t seem to want to even give me a chance (she could only view the age difference). I’m not sure if there’s anything I can do to fix this, because, honestly, I’m not sure if her mom would eventually come around to the idea. I’d really like to sit down with her mom and talk, but I really don’t even know how to bring this up since my girlfriend has broken up with me.

I’m really just looking for guidance. I really love this girl, and the age difference never played a factor between us within the relationship itself. I’ve also never been married, and I don’t have any kids, so that wasn’t an issue, but I have had several long-term relationships. However, both my girlfriend and I were committed to doing this long-term.

One final note: my girlfriend does have a history of drinking problems. This started in high school, but progressed to a brief time in rehab/detox back in June. She had been doing well, but has been drinking more lately (she went out and got drunk after our date was canceled because she was upset). She does feel she’s slipping, but the relationship ending itself had to do with her thinking her mom would never approve.

And our response:

Thanks for your question.

First, let me say that I always have a little skepticism when there is an age gap like this. I discussed what these age gaps can indicate in a recent post responding to another reader entitled “Reader Question: How to Handle a Painful Breakup with a Younger Woman Co-Worker?” In your situation, there are some things that ease my mind that the age gap itself may not indicate a problem, as well as some things that set off red flags. On the easing side, you mention that you have had long term relationships before, so it isn’t quite the same as the other reader’s situation where he had experience well below the usual for his age. On the worrying side, you mention that this girl has a somewhat significant and recurring substance abuse problem. That combined with the age gap – and especially combined with the issues in her relationship with her mother that we will soon discuss – means that this situation and your response to it may indeed be influenced by some of the maturity issues discussed in response to that other question. So at the very least I encourage you to read through that post and think about how some of the things mentioned there may apply to you and consider  checking out some of the resources recommended there if you feel they might help.

Now, to get to the possibly more central issue of controlling mothers and what they represent and how they impact a situation like this.

This woman you were involved with is 21 years old. So she isn’t 16, but she isn’t 25. It’s kind of a gray area based solely on age as to what her mother’s appropriate role might be. I think at 21 it’s certainly reasonable for her mother to make her feelings known and offer advice, especially if her daughter is less, rather than more, mature for her age. However, I think it’s somewhat of an unhealthy sign that she appears to micromanage the relationship and interfere to the extent of overriding her daughter’s ability to make choices autonomously. I understand the notion that if she is living at her mother’s house, her mother can use that as leverage. But I’m not so sure that in a healthy situation, when her daughter is 21 years of age, that she really should want to do that.

A lot of what the mother did seems reasonable to request, but not reasonable to insist on. For example, it’s ok that she’d like to meet you. But it’s somewhat overbearing to require this in order to give “permission” for you two – two adults, not children – to go out with each other. The fact that she then isn’t even prompt in agreeing to the meeting makes things even worse.

The fact that you met the mother in a police station where the girlfriend is involved in something only adds to the overall picture of drama pervasive in this whole situation.

And then there is the fact that her mother, from what you say, is inconsistent and goes from apparently approving of you to not approving of you as dating material overnight.

So the whole situation has all sorts of red flags and, as I advise all our readers, it’s important for you to consider – possibly with the use of some of the books we recommend – why you are attracted to a situation with these kinds of dynamics (ie: invasive controlling mother, substance abuse, police involvement, etc.) Why does a situation like this feel comfortable and attractive rather than possibly unsafe? What about your own past sets you up to feel familiar or intrigued by this? And I am not saying you shouldn’t feel these things or that you can snap your fingers and not feel them. I’m only saying that they are things you can use to learn about yourself and possibly gain a more accurate perspective on what went on here.

Now let’s talk about the biggest elephant in the room here. Who is really responsible for this breakup ultimately? In your email your subject was “Breakup because of her mother.” But let us be honest. This is a 21 year old woman. She may be stuck in a bind having to live with her mother and deal with you if her mother does not approve. I can even imagine her having to tell you that for the time being she can’t go out with you, but she definitely is interested and wants to pursue this further once she moves away from mom. But she did not do even that. She gave in to her mother’s will completely, almost as a younger teenager might, and then didn’t even have the maturity to talk to you about it face to face, but broke up with you on Facebook.

I would submit that all of this means that, though the relationship may have felt wonderful at times, it was never really “fine” underneath it all. It was always on a very very shaky foundation. The real problem is that your girlfriend apparently is quite enmeshed with her mother and unwilling or unable to make her own adult choices. And I suspect that this kind of enmeshment has very deep roots and would have shown up in many ways throughout your relationship if it continued further. As disappointing as that is, perhaps it can also offer a bit of comfort. I highly doubt you missed out on a fantastic problem-free situation. I think more likely you saw only the tip of the iceberg of what you’d be up against for years to come. When people are enmeshed with controlling mothers, without taking steps to resolve that dysfunctional connection, the dynamics can cause problems in every aspect of their other relationships, from inconsistency in making decisions to passing down the dysfunction to your own children if you were to have them together.

So while her mother seems to have control issues, and has probably affected her development quite a bit because of them, it is your girlfriend’s own refusal to set boundaries and assert herself that ended this relationship in the long run. It is a sad situation. But again, I highly doubt you would have had a healthy or smooth relationship with that kind of enmeshment involved. Your girlfriend basically screamed at you “I’m not as mature as you thought I am and I’m not ready to be an adult or be involved in an adult relationship.”

In order to get closure, if you feel the need for that, you might want to simply explain to this girl how you feel about her, that you understand that her relationship with her mother puts a lot of pressure on her and that in the future, if she is ready to separate and make more assertive choices, regardless of her mother’s approval or disapproval, you would be interested in being there for her at that time. That’s really most likely all you can do. Pressuring people to separate from their controlling mothers when they themselves are not ready or willing to take the necessary steps to do so often only backfires on you.

In the meantime, consider the fact that there is often a great deal to learn by investigating the chemistry of why we are involved with someone with certain family dynamics. The fact that you are deeply attracted to a younger woman with a substance abuse problem that is exacerbated by her enmeshment with mom should make you consider your own family dynamics, especially as it relates to enmeshments or abandonments and see what you can work on healing. There is no guarantee you will find anything. But it’s worth considering.

There is one other possibility here. Perhaps her mother is not just inherently overbearing, but rightly recognizes that her daughter has some serious issues that make her truly unable to make decisions at a 21 year old level. If this is the case, and the daughter has a very real substance abuse or mental health issue that deeply impacts her capacity to mature, then the controlling mother’s unusual amount of control might be justified. But if that is the case, then the outcome for you would be the same – to recognize that you never were with someone capable of an adult relationship right now – and your response should probably be the same: to let her know that when she is ready and able to grow you are interested in being there for her, if that is actually the case.

Either way, once you make your feelings known, you’ll have to assess the wisdom of putting other relationships on hold to wait around for this person who may not mature for a long time. And if she comes back wanting to try again you’ll have to assess whether you believe she will be consistent or will go back and forth in this cycle between you and her mother many more times.